Also, according to Schulz and de Vienne, that chart of origins is significantly wrong. They prove it so with contemporary documentation.
Old Goat
JoinedPosts by Old Goat
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24
A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch ... By B. W. Schulz
by Terry inenter:.
https://books.google.com/books.
a separate identity: organizational identity among readers of zion’s watch .
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A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch ... By B. W. Schulz
by Terry inenter:.
https://books.google.com/books.
a separate identity: organizational identity among readers of zion’s watch .
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Old Goat
In fact, volume 2 of Separate Identity is in preparation. They post bits of it on their blog. They also posted a request for documents and such for The third book in the series. Having written a few books myself, I can tell you that history books do not spring into being over night, at least the worth while ones don't.
Visit their blog regularly. They some times post rough draft chapters, though only temporarily. I read their blog compulsively.
I should say that I know both authors. I used to work with Mr. Schulz at Conventions, usually in the news service department. And Dr. de Vienne lives across the Columbia River from me. She meets me for coffee about one a month or so and tells me about their current research. If she had been one of my students, I'd brag a bunch, but she wasn't.
Last I heard, they're about half or more done with volume 2 and collecting material for the third book in this series. Book 1 was Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet.
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A Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion’s Watch ... By B. W. Schulz
by Terry inenter:.
https://books.google.com/books.
a separate identity: organizational identity among readers of zion’s watch .
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Old Goat
http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
A fairly large preview of Separate Identity is available at books.google.com
I taught history at a major West Coast university for many years. This is some of the best work I've ever seen, especially about the Watch Tower.
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Brooklyn Eagle scans
by diamondiiz inhttp://www.4shared.com/file/97496947/cd21b343/1909-1916_brooklyn_eagle_news_clippings.html.
thought of putting this in a new topic.. scans on:.
miracle wheat.
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Old Goat
The Brooklyn Eagle is a very unreliable site. What you want is the trial transcript: It's embedded in this book:
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EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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Old Goat
The original document reads:
Pittsburgh PA, Feb’y 1881
We the undersigned – believing that much good can be accomplished and many people be brought to see the great loving plans of our heavenly Father, by a judicious and thorough use of tracts and reading matter treating on some of the salient points of our belief, as we find it to be gloriously and graciously revealed in our Father’s word, do hereby combine and unite our energies etc. for the purpose of so publishing and distributing “Zion’s Watch Tower” tracts etc.
The Lord willing and aiding us we purpose distributing said tracts etc. in all the large cities (north) of the United States and in the principal ones of Great Britain etc. etc. as the Lord of the harvest shall open the way and reveal his will.
This work will require millions of pages of tracts costing thousands of dollars; it will require thousands of distributors costing other thousands of dollars. (The purpose complying with the words of the Lord “Owe no man any thing” and will contract no debts.) And we the signers of this paper willingly contribute toward this fund the amounts set opposite our names. The money which we contribute is not ours, it belongs to Him whose we are – We gave it when we gave ourselves and our all to him. We now act as God’s “stewards” in distributing of His goods to His praise and glory and for the preaching of the good news to thousands who are in darkness and being (as we once were) led into infidelity and unbelief through the misrepresentations made concerning the character and plan of our loving Father.
Of the sum which we have set opposite our names we “stewards” of the manyfold grace (favors) of God will pay one half in cash and one half on demand after six months to the publisher of “Zion’s Watch Tower” who agrees to keep a strict acc’t of all moneys received and expended; and to make a showing of same to any of the subscribers to the fund whenever desired.
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EX J-DUB TRIVIA (TRY it and see how many you can get correctly)
by Terry intrivia quiz for ex-jw's.
1.who was the first president of the watchtower bible and tract society.. 2.when was the watch tower association first formed.
(what year?).
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Old Goat
1. The first President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was J. F. Rutherford. Originally formed as the People's Pulpit Society in 1909, its name was changed in 1939 to Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York. If you mean Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society, Conley is correct. But his primary occupation was steel fabrication.
2. There is no Watchtower Association. There was and is in some countries the International Bible Students Association founded in 1914. Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was formed in 1881.
3. Joseph Russell and C. T. Russell. The rest of your answer is wrong. They did not "purchase shares." That was a post 1884 development. The organizers pledged money, paid half at signing and half later. Charles Russell committed to $7000.00; Albert Delmont Jones committed to $2000.00; William Henry Conley promised $4000.00; and Joseph L. Russell promised $1000.00. These are the figures on the original document. The online claims are false.
10. The Russell v. Russell transcript does not support claims of an Improper Relationship between Russell and Rose Ball. That comes from sensationalist newspaper articles.
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The pyramids and rutherford.......
by atomant inlve been researching the early days of the jw"s and found some very damning information which needs to be discussed at length.according to my research it is claimed that early founders used the pyramids to work out important biblical dates that are now dates set in stone according to the beliefs of the sect and can not be changed as it would rock the very foundation upon which their beliefs are built.l was hoping for somone with a precise understanding to please elaborate whether this is true or not.
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Old Goat
Schulz and de Vienne's history web blog is here http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ -
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The pyramids and rutherford.......
by atomant inlve been researching the early days of the jw"s and found some very damning information which needs to be discussed at length.according to my research it is claimed that early founders used the pyramids to work out important biblical dates that are now dates set in stone according to the beliefs of the sect and can not be changed as it would rock the very foundation upon which their beliefs are built.l was hoping for somone with a precise understanding to please elaborate whether this is true or not.
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Old Goat
This quotation is from Schulz and de Vienne, Separate Identity: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion's Watch Tower 1870-1887 (vol. 1)
They were introduced to speculations about the Great Pyramid of Giza at least by 1875.[1] How soon they adopted the view that the pyramid was God’s “great stone witness on the border of Egypt” is unknown, but it must have been in this era. As with so much else, claims made about Russell’s belief that the Great Pyramid was a secondary witness to the divine message are often wholly or partly false. One writer suggests that Storrs introduced Pyramidology to “the Millerites,” and that belief centered in Adventist bodies. Those who lack persistence and skill as researchers, the lazy and polemicists may have an interest in limiting belief to “fringe” groups, but this distorts the record. Pyramidology was discussed in America at least by 1861.[2] Believers were a diverse group that ran the spectrum from Astrologers to Thomas De Witt Talmage, a popular Presbyterian and Reformed pastor, who had “no doubt” that Isaiah’s reference to a stone witnesses on the border of Egypt meant the Great Pyramid.[3]Charles Piazzi Smyth, Astronomer Royal for Scotland, popularized and elaborated the theories of John Taylor, who without visiting the pyramid suggested that it was constructed by Noah. Smyth traveled to Egypt, examining and measuring the pyramid. He penned Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid which was published in 1864. It attributed the Great Pyramid to Melchizedek and gave it a scientific and religious import. Smyth’s theories gained a following among Egyptologists, not the least of whom was William Matthew Flinders Petrie. But when Flinders Petrie traveled to Egypt in 1880, making his own measurements he found so many flaws in Smyth’s theory that he abandoned it, calling it “lamentable nonsense.” By the end of the 19th Century no reputable Egyptologist supported it.
James K. Walker, president of the Watchman Fellowship, suggested that Pyramidology was “a major source of revelation” for Russell, writing that Russell admitted to this. As is true of most of what Mr. Walker writes, this is absurd. At least one writer claims that Pyramidology attracted Adventists primarily, and many claim that pyramid belief was rank superstition, occultism, or connected to the Masons. All of this is wrong, some of it out of context and some contrived. Certainly, Walker’s claim that Russell was dependent on pyramid measurement for his chronology is false. Ron Rhodes described Russell’s belief that the pyramid fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy as “cornerstone component” of his belief system. This is also false.
In 1881, Russell wrote that he had “great respect” for the teaching of the Great Pyramid, adding, “We do not build our faith upon it. It has well been called ‘A Miracle in Stone,’ and it commends itself to us as a work of God, and not planned by men, for it seems in every respect to be in perfect accord with God’s plan as we are finding it written in His Word; and this it is, that causes our respect for it.”[4] It is no more true that Russell found in the pyramid a cornerstone of his theology than it is of Clarence Larkin, the Baptist expositor, who also saw the pyramid as God’s stone witness on the border of Egypt.
Russell was introduced to Pyramidology through his One Faith and Millennialist connections. Storrs, writers for Age-to-Come journals, and others promoted Smyth’s ideas and added thoughts of their own. Thomas Wilson’s Our Rest focused on the dual themes of Christ’s return and the Great Pyramid. Russell could not have avoided the discussion. The quotation above shows us that he read J. A. Seiss’ Miracle in Stone when it was published in 1877. Seiss published on the theme in 1869, but while Russell may have read that tract we cannot prove he did. The nature of the Great Pyramid was the subject of lectures, pamphlets, books and public discussion. If it later became the pet theory of fringe religion and occultists, it was not that in this era. We honor Isaac Newton for his science. We forget that when everyone else believed Phlogiston was a scientific reality, he did too. If he were alive today, we’d raise our eyebrows and scoff. Context is everything here. Put in context, Russell’s adoption of Smyth’s theory made him a man of his times. He believed it when others did.
Seiss, whose works are still published, is honored as a serious and scholarly exegete. Others of repute in the religious world found the theory attractive. A long list of favorable reviews of his Miracle in Stone appeared in the religious and secular press. The Illustrated Christian Weekly expressed some reservations but recommended it. The Reformed Church Messenger approached it in the same way. So did The Christian Intelligencer. Messiah’s Herald wrote, “We’re glad that it is being studied by men of learning and piety; and those who have a taste for study in that direction, will find many things in this volume to help them.” We do not know how Russell was introduced to Seiss’ book. He probably heard of it from various sources. The Pittsburgh Dispatch reviewed it, saying: “The lectures of Dr. Seiss are as remarkable for the polished beauty of their construction, as for the information which they contain. That mysterious pillar, the Great Pyramid of Gizeh, its relation to ancient history, modern discoveries, and Bible connections, are thoroughly canvassed in this volume.” If we are to fault Russell at all, it is for believing the theory long after its defects were apparent.
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1872 - The Evening Prayer
by wifibandit inmost jehovah's witnesses believe that the book called the three worlds, published in 1877 by n.h. barbour and charles t. russell, was the first publication charles russell took part in publishing.. that is not true!.
in 1872 five years before the three worlds was published, charles t. russell and his father j.l.
russell published the evening prayer.. thanks wtunderground!.
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Old Goat
Not news. There's a photo of it and a short discussion of the Russell's music publishing business in Schulz and de Vienne, A Separate Identity. http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html
Their Web Site is here: http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
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Steven Lett asks for money again
by Gorbatchov inthe 2016 january tv.jw.org broadcasting has a clear message: jw.org needs more money!.
the 2 months of donation increase is not enough: the thousands of projects are not a 2 month project.. so: thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you (heh heh heh) and send us more!
personal conclusion: if i had any doubts that the society is sincere, this openly money grabbing has made my perception complete.
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Old Goat
He should return this personality to whomever he stole this one from and use his real one. He oozes insincerity.
He reminds me of an old time, pompous Assistant Company Servant who saw the movie Song of the South and adopted the mannerisms and personality of the old Black Man in the picture.